Can you prove it?

Some people want proof that the Christian view corresponds to reality… What type of proof would be valid?

If you mean evidence from laboratory experiments, what science consistently shows is that:

• We have no experimental evidence that something comes from nothing.
• We have no experimental evidence that life arises from non-life (abiogenesis remains unproven).
• We have no experimental evidence that highly complex systems arise spontaneously from simplicity without guidance.
• We have no experimental evidence that sustained order naturally emerges from total chaos without external input.

All known experimental evidence points in the opposite direction.

If you want proof from logic, we can reason that:

• If the human mind is purely the product of blind chance and undirected evolution, then we have no ultimate reason to trust our conclusions as reliable indicators of truth (a point made by thinkers like Alvin Plantinga).
• If there is no meaning or purpose to anything, then debate, opinions, or moral judgments ultimately have no binding significance.
• If we operate only from what the human mind can perceive or reason, then there is no ultimate guarantee that our thoughts correspond to reality (thus the need for divine revelation paired with human investigation).

If you mean proof from history, scholars widely agree that:

• The Bible provides an accurate historical record of events, geography, cultures, languages and archeological data, aligning with other authoritative records. The evidence shows it is deeply rooted in real history, contrary to the claim that it is merely myth.
• Jesus of Nazareth was a real historical person.
• He was crucified under the Roman governor Pontius Pilate in the first century.
• His earliest followers were utterly convinced he rose from the dead, providing strong evidence of his claims, and many endured persecution and death because of this belief.
• The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus and the Bible (his story) have had an unparalleled influence on global history, shaping law, justice, science, philosophy, art, literature, education, healthcare, and more.

Taken seriously, these historical points provide a foundation for the Christian claim that Jesus is God, arguing also for the Bible’s trustworthiness and thus its thesis statement: “In the beginning, God created…”

When applied to questions of ultimate origins, evolutionary theory functions more as a belief system than as observable science. Microevolution (small changes within species) is well-documented, but questions remain about how entirely new kinds of life (macroevolution) arise and how life itself began. Similarly, beliefs such as “matter is eternal” or “the multiverse exists” cannot be proven; they are philosophical extrapolations from a belief system. Many leading atheists admit their position begins with a prior commitment against God. Believing in eternal matter is no less a leap of faith than believing in creation ex nihilo.

On the other hand, design is evident everywhere in the universe. Intelligence gives order, meaning, and purpose—matter alone cannot. At every level, even down to the cell, life is built on information. The genetic code, for instance, is not just biological—it is linguistic. Richard Dawkins, though an atheist, acknowledges that DNA functions like a code: “What lies at the heart of every living thing is not a fire, not warm breath, nor a ‘spark of life’. It is information, words, instructions...” At the heart of biblical creation is not merely matter, but the spoken word. “And God said…” introduces a universe built through divine speech—through information, intention, and order.

Conversation - part 1

How can we build understanding with those who profoundly disagree with us?

This post begins a series of posts in order to review an online conversation with Derek that began in January of 2020. As I have reflected on this discussion over many months, my intent was always to invite him to work through this conversation again, contributing his ideas and commentary, which would give a more complete context to the thought process behind the words we actually used. But now, going again to the YouTube entry where this conversation took place, Derek has deleted all of his entries and so there is no way for me to contact him. This makes me very sad. I don’t know what has happened to him, but I pray that he has found answers that satisfy  his deepest needs. Maybe my interaction helped with this and maybe not, God knows.

It began with a random video that was a negative response to a video on the value of the 10 Commandments. The video response itself was nearly worthless, so I don’t recommend it. Neither do I particularly recommend the video on the 10 Commandments posted by Denis Prager, though he does have some very valuable insights on this topic. As I looked through a few of the comments that day, one conversation caught my attention. If you are interested in the thread, you can access it on Youtube here. 

Derek was responding to a comment by Matthew who had tried to highlight the ​​differences between covetousness, jealousy and greed. Derek and Matthew had interacted briefly but Derek was digging deeper with the following questions. Unfortunately, I did not save those earlier posts from Derek.

His original questions were as follows…

1) How can god be moral if he created, actively maintains, and keeps occupied, hell, even when it is the case that it's solely for the thought-crime of unbelief? What about his kill count that is so much larger than that of Satan himself, as stated in the Bible? How is this "loving"?

2) How do the concepts of original sin and inherited sin make any sense? Or, if you would rather answer this more precise question, why EXACTLY do you believe that babies, long before they can retain memories, let alone understand what is meant by "good" "evil" "god" "original sin" "satan", etc..., are destined for eternal damnation from the get-go, just because of some guy making an honest mistake (didn't know evil from good) in the ancient past?

3) As I demonstrated in my previous comment, faith and evidence cannot both be tools of the Christian, by definition of these terms. Which, then, do you choose as your foundation? Honestly, if it is faith, we have no reason to speak, because I would agree that faith is perhaps the most true reason that you believe. If you choose evidence, then you must do two things in turn: explain why the bible emphasizes faith so strongly (in contrast to your evidence-based viewpoint), and show me what demonstrable evidence, physical or logical, you have in favor of your beliefs.

Commentary:

When I wrote this, my intention was to communicate the value of his questions, which seem to be sincere and indicate that he is looking for real answers to real questions. He is concerned about protecting the innocent, defining morality, faith and the ultimate source of knowledge or truth. We can see that each of these questions cannot be adequately addressed by hard data or science and demand a recognition of something outside of our sensory experiences to even be able to ask the questions in the first place! But I tried to take the questions at face value without attacking any misconceptions. I wanted to show him that a discussion of these topics could be done politely and without accusations in order to invite deeper understanding between us and maybe even friendship.

My response:

It looks like Matthew has not responded to you - so in the interest of continuing your reasoned and polite discussion, I'd be happy to share my thoughts.

First: The problem with the whole discussion here is that we all live with a concept of justice and fairness that is built into our western culture. If you look at primitive tribes now or in ancient times, specifically those with little or no exposure to a biblical view of the world, then you see that these assumptions are definitely not universal.

So, if you will allow me to address your 3 questions above, here are a few ideas. You are welcome to respond or disagree because I know that we come from different perspectives on this...

1 - Hell may be a lot of things but it is primarily "separation from God". The imagined torture or punishment of hell as a tool or creation of God is not possible because it is simply where God is not present and therefore does not intervene. An eternal hell is simply a result of my choice to pay for my own sin and not accept the payment available through Jesus' death. Hell is my choice so no one can ever say that God chooses hell for someone. BTW: if you don't believe there is a hell or a God, then this is probably irrelevant information. As for death, everyone faces it. There is no escape from it but we certainly can and do hurry it along for ourselves and for others. There is no evidence that a "kill count" is higher for anyone (except for certain humans in history that you can probably name).

2 - This is directly connected to the first issue - a faulty understanding of what hell is. Babies and anyone else without the mental capacity to choose right from wrong are not destined for hell, thanks to God's grace and mercy. Original sin is simply our inherited disposition to choose our own way and separate ourselves from God (and from everyone else). I see this in my tendency to do what is not good and hide it even from myself.

3 - Faith and evidence always go hand in hand because no one can ever fully know something that is outside the capacity to measure or test. Evidence points to the truth about my wife's love for me and I also believe (have faith) that she loves me and I act on that belief. Historical evidence, eyewitness accounts and the lives of those eyewitness afterward point to the resurrection of Christ from the dead, but it also demands faith because it is outside the workings of the natural world.

I've provided brief answers according to my current understanding of the Bible. Hopefully I will have better answers in the future, but please accept these for now ;)

Questions for you:

What do you see behind his questions? What is his motivation? Which perspective is closer to your beliefs and how would you support it? Could I have provided a better invitation for continued discussion? What do you think his response will be?

Interpreting our Experiences

It is interesting to see the conclusions people draw these days from the news or from their own experiences and then, claiming to understand the motives of others, make broad generalizations and theories about society, culture and even history. This may be partially due to the immediate access most people have to the news and how that is shaped by the biases and perspectives of those channels we choose to use to receive that news.

Books are also being written at a furious pace about our personal experiences and how these have shaped our understanding of reality. And, of course, we can't deny the experiences of others because we have not walked in their shoes. We must be gracious and sympathize with the challenges they have faced, acknowledging their reality is not necessarily accepting their reality as mine. But, in the name of compassion, we must let it impact us at least at an emotional level and let it begin to shape our interactions with people who have experienced something similar. Are you struggling with keeping all this together? Are you trying to absorb all these experiences into your thinking and live in a manner that allows harmony and congruency between conflicting ideas and experiences? Really, I'm struggling with this myself.

I was reading a post the other day and comparing it to my current studies in 1st Timothy. You can read the post here: https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2021/08/dogma-drives-the-christian-life

But it is a good reminder of several things...

In 1 and 2 Corinthians, Paul shows us that his experiences (or testimony) do not provide the framework for understanding the faith. Rather, the faith provides the framework for understanding his own experience. The post-modern (or post-Christian) tendency is to interpret everything in terms of our personal (or our group’s) experiences. But this is folly and leaves us nearly blind to the realities of life and the bigger picture of Who God is and what He is doing. When I see myself first as an American man or first as a member of any group instead of first as an image bearer of God, fallen and yet redeemed by Christ, then I have made my experiences or my community more important than the reality of what God has established and what He has done in Christ. But when I honor who God is and what He has done first, then I find myself in the place He has put me for His purposes and for His glory, not mine. This then allows me to appreciate my suffering as a tool to learn dependence on Him, my work as an opportunity to participate in His redemptive purposes, my relationships as a molding process toward godliness, my physical and material blessings as a gift from His hand to in turn practice generosity with others.

Paul’s experiences do not provide the framework for understanding the faith. The faith provides the framework for understanding his experience.

Paul summarizes this well in his letter to Timothy. Even when Timothy was struggling to deal with false doctrine in the church in Ephesus, establishing godly leadership, programs to care for the needy, to develop focused vision and godly character in a dramatically secular culture, Paul reminded him of his overriding priority to honor God first. First Timothy 3:16 is a hymn to honor Christ’s identity and His work, the centerpiece of the faith, not our own experience.

My identity and faith must be first in Christ, anything else is insufficient for understanding who I am, why I am alive or how to live moment by moment.

Are you interpreting the faith (Christian life and practice) based on your experiences in life, your interactions with the church or individual Christians, your suffering or your disappointments? Or are you interpreting your experiences in light of who God is and what He has done in Christ for a world in desperate need of Him?

Meditate on it day and night

“Meditate on it day and night” (Psalm 1) - this is a reference to continual thinking, processing and discussion over a lifetime as you dig deeper into the symbolism and ambiguities of Scripture in light of the bigger picture of life. This means that any one part of Scripture, taken as a single entity, can lead us the wrong direction because it is so different from our current perspectives and cultural orientations. We tend to ask the wrong questions and come to the wrong conclusions because we are not thinking in the same direction, have not processed it adequately, want to fit it into our current theories or simply don’t have enough information. There is a compelling need to see the full scope of the Bible and its story of God in relationship with humanity in an intimate and personal way. This Story becomes my story because I see myself in the struggles, the failures, the rebellions of others. This is a very helpful, transformative and hopeful process when it develops in us a profound sense of humility, responsibility and fear of God.

But, this phenomenon of “letting this story become my story” is also happening in the postmodern, post-truth world. This extreme version is called “narratology” and can be a very powerful and sometimes very subversive tool for creating a new thought process in others. It began with Satan in the garden of Eden when he told Adam and Eve a story that they adopted as their own. But, as it was only part of the truth, it led them to disastrously wrong conclusions.

Which stories are you listening to these days? Are there cultural stories being told that are focussed primarily on emotional connections? Are there stories being told which are intended to make you feel guilt or shame? Are there stories that purposefully ignore the issue of original sin or emphasize our differences as the root source of conflict? Are there stories that blame certain groups of people instead of our individual (or humanity’s) rebellion against God? Are there stories which make God in man's image instead of man in God's image? Beware of these stories! These are usually meant to manipulate and always point us in the wrong direction even as they contain elements of truth. These stories lead us away from recognizing and honoring the image of God in every person. They lead us to think we have the answers ourselves apart from our repentance and God’s forgiveness. These stories lead us away from the sufficiency of Christ and into slavery and hatred. They lead us to depend on religious, philosophical, financial, works based or even political solutions to society’s struggles. They lead us to manipulation and fear-based control of others. But in the end, it is me who is deceived.

This brings us back to the original idea, “Meditate on it day and night.” Unless we let God’s Word impact every area of our thinking, asking to “be transformed by the renewing of our mind”, we may be trapped in the same way that Adam and Eve were trapped. Every morning my prayer is, “God, open my eyes to see as you see, to love others as you love me, to reject the lies of a broken world so that I can honor you and value others.” I don’t have all the answers, but I know where they can be found and they are not in the ideas of those who do not know God and have no desire to honor Him. Truth is always rooted first in God’s revelation through His Word and confirmed by the leading of His Spirit at work in my heart. “Your Word is truth.”

If you want to learn a bit more about Jewish Meditation Literature, see the Bible Project's video on this topic at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhmlJBUIoLk

A picture of a tree

“All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree.” Albert Einstein

And what is the name of that tree? That is the real question. When I imagine this tree, I see a bright, full, strong tree growing beside a river. It is set apart from others, having privileged access to the water, its roots growing deeper and its branches reaching higher each year. The animals of the forest come and rest under its shade in the long, hot afternoons. The birds nest in its broad, stable branches where the squirrels play in the evenings.

There are many who have heard the name of this tree. Many have whispered the name over the years, looking long and hard for it. Some have found it and as they recount the story of their search, others laugh and mock or just nod quietly in understanding. Many have even died in defense of that tree, not that any could destroy it; this tree stands beyond the reach of any destructive intent but not so far from any who search for its shade. I have seen young people who sit and marvel at its beauty day after day and others who wander far from it, discontented and lost. I have heard the words of old men who did not believe in its existence and others whose every word was the rustling of its leaves and the flowing of its sap.

The name of the tree is Truth and it is rooted deep in the eternal and unchanging Word. It was planted before the beginning of time and served well the Creator in the founding and forming of our universe. It breathes life and speaks to everything in our search for understanding. Its branches are science, math, history, philosophy and art, but also, mercy, justice, compassion and love. It eludes many who think they are wise, and many who think they know nothing are standing in its shade.